NOname
Întrebare recomandată | NOname a întrebat:

O întrebare, pe care este bine să ne-o punem periodic cu toţii: Când vine vorba de sfârşit, va fi mai puţină suferinţă în lume, pentru că ai trăit sau pentru că ai murit?
Sau o variantă similară: Când vei înceta din viaţă, va fi mai multă suferinţă în lume sau mai puţină?

Răspuns Câştigător
| Leocerba a răspuns:

O stii pe Tereza Cremisi?
Nici eu.
Stiu insa o povestioara in care Cioran a fost implicat. O doamna, intr-un moment de angoasa, se intalneste in drumul ei catre birou cu Cioran. Cioran mergea sa-si cumpere niste rosii, cre` ca. Si doamna incepe sa i se planga lui Cioran ca poate si-a ratat viata, toata ziua la acelasi birou, si daca nu si-a ratat-o inca, poate ca o sa si-o rateze in curand. Cioran, excedat, ridicand ochii spre cer, ii spune doamnei "Asculta, cucoana, Parisul e totusi un loc excelent unde sa-ti ratezi viata, nu crezi?"

Asa zic si eu in fata intrebarii tale, nu stiu daca va fi mai putina sau mai multa suferinta pentru ca am trait sau pentru ca am murit dar ce pot eu sa fac cat inca sunt vie e sa fac lumea un loc excelent in care sa merite sa suferi.
laughing
( doamna angoasata era cred Teresa Cremisi si cred ca a facut cateva lucruri remarcabile, sau o sa le faca in curand )

| NOname explică (pentru Leocerba):

Poetică, originală şi adorabilă, ca de obicei... laughing

159 răspunsuri:
NOname
| NOname explică:

O variantă în engleză (pentru nuanţele care se pierd în traducere):
http://www.facebook.com/......587179921/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"WE ARE NOT "EDUCATING" OURSELVES BY INCARCERATING THE INNOCENT. we are just making ourselves this planet's demons and proving captivity kills them, early...if we do not kill these victims of greed first, after we invade the minimal space we give them. let all live their lives, as they were meant to and stop invading their space and homes, in the wild, too! we are but one species here, but we have become parasites, killing off the land and animals, without care. it is time to make amends, and change. FREE ALL THE INNOCENT ANIMAL INMATES NOW!"

http://www.facebook.com/......383413458/

| Veritas a răspuns (pentru NOname):

Avand in vedere ca iau cu mine suferinta mea, va fi mai putina.Pe de alta parte, va exista suferinta unora pe care daca as fi trait i-as fi ajutat inainte sa apuce sa sufere, deci va fi mai multa.Stiu ca nu la asta se refera intrebarea, ci la a privi viata din aceasta perspectiva, a facerii de bine sau de rau, a irosirii sau a folosirii vietii pentru a lasa ceva in urma, dar eu am raspuns strict subiectiv raportand intrebarea la mine.

NOname
| NOname explică:

Philip Wollen : Animals Should Be Off The Menu debate.
http://youtu.be/uQCe4qEexjc

http://www.facebook.com/......720107991/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"VEGANISM IS HELPFUL AND KIND TO ALL SENTIENT LIFE HERE, as we are also using 1800 gallons of water to produce a pound of meat, and 2000 gallons of water to produce a gallon of milk. famine and drought need not exist, if we just stopped being slaves to our appetites and making animals slaves to it, too. please, think about the consequences of your choices, when you do, and you want to be the change, you want to see in the world. LIVING VEGAN MAKES YOU PART OF THE SOLUTION."

http://www.facebook.com/......480042915/

| Arthiom a răspuns (pentru NOname):

"if we just stopped being slaves to our appetites" laughing Sclavii apetitului sunt cei care nu stiu sa zica stop, vesnic flamanzii care mananca incontinuu dupa se plang ca s-au ingrasat si se simt rau sau obosesc. Ca se intampla odata sa iti fie pofta de o inghetata sau o felie de salam aia nu inseamna ca esti sclavul apetitului. Sclav al apetitului esti atunci cand vara in amiaza mare te duci sa iti faci o shaorma ca ti-e foame, dupa 5 minute bei o sticla de cola si iar te intorci la frigider.

| NOname explică (pentru Arthiom):

Sunt mai multe tipuri de sclavi.

Cert este, că atunci când pui apetitul tău mai presus decât suferinţa unui animal nevinovat, decât binele lui, când conştientizezi că e greşit să torturezi şi să omori (sau să comanzi asta, plătind), dar tot o faci, neputându-te stăpâni, nu eşti liber, eşti prizonierul viciilor tale cele mai atroce.

| ALGator a răspuns (pentru NOname):

Ar trebui sa incep prin a sterge toate raspunsurile mele pentru ca erau in afara de subiect. Inteleg ca scopul intrebarii era altul.

Nu imi este straina problema tratarii demne a animalelor de catre noi. Dar nu pot sa spun ca am ajuns la un raspuns care sa impace cit de cit si alte aspecte.
Mentinindu-ma strict la intrebare, dupa ca dispar cota mea de carne va transferata altcuiva. Eventual, prin trecerea timpului si cistigarea de teren a unei alte doctrine, mentalitati, va scade numarul celor care consuma carne. Cu alte cuvinte, momentan nu cred ca disparitia mea va reduce suferinta animalelor.

As mai sugera ca o abordare mai solida a subiectului (,,durabila", cum se spune acum) din partea cuiva, ar presupune documentarea la sursa, nu (numai) prin intermediul selectiei facute de partizanii cauzei.
Istorie, filosofie, medicina (partea care priveste alimentatia), etologie, legi si morala. A te documenta nu dureaza infinit de mult, dar totusi poate fi peste puterile (timp sau intelegere) unora.
Mi se pare de dorit sa se faca aceasta documentare sine ira et studio. Saitul facebook citat are dupa parerea mea o problema, aceea ca face apel foarte mult la sentimente prezentind in primul rind informatia spectaculoasa. Ar fi de rumegat la rece, pentru ca oricum nu sint sanse ca problema sa fie rezolvata mîine. Mai bine aleasa o cale,,durabila", atingind un rezultat nu la pastele cailor, si construita pe baze pe care o categorie mai larga de oameni sa le poata intelege si sa le fie mai greu de contraargumentat.
Dupa acest,, ocol" de documentare si aprofundare impartiala ar rezulta mai mai limpede daca ceeace Melanie Joy numeste,, Authentic" (cum ar spune turcul,,, sadea") se confirma.
S-ar putea de exemplu, sa constatam, in urma reflectiilor, ca ca ceeace este autentic pentru noi oamenii nu convine altor conlocuitori ai planetei, dar ca, in ciuda acestui fapt, chiar dorim, gasim ca e in interesul nostru etc sa adoptam aceasta abordare. Nu ar fi primul lucru la care indivizii renunta in favoarea unei cauze comune, asa ca de ce nu?
Dar daca e asa, sa nu prezentam motivatia noastra ca fiind alta doar de dragul rationamentului.

AUTÉNTIC adj. 1. v. adevărat. 2. v. veritabil. 3. adevărat, curat, nefalsificat, original, veritabil. (Artă ~.) 4. bun, curat, veritabil,

Personal sunt pentru o tratare cu minimum de interventie si agresiune, cu respect, a mediului (urban, natural, aici incluzind bineinteles ceeace e viu, mai ales regnul animal).

| ALGator a răspuns (pentru ALGator):

Un exemplu: bun sau rau... Nu vreau sa insinuez ca tocmai raspunsul citat de mine mai jos e singurul adevarat. Exista probabil sute de mii de astfel de pareri, multe din ele batindu-se cap in cap, unele mai intelepte, altele mai putin. Am citat doar pe una cu simplu scop,, pedagogic".

"As a vegetarian who returned to meat-eating, I find the question "Is meat-eating ethical?" one that is in my head and heart constantly. The reasons I became a vegetarian, then a vegan and then again a conscientious meat-eater were all ethical."

http://www.nytimes.com/......-meat.html

NOname
| NOname explică:

"EYES NEVER LIE, THEY TELL YOU HOW SOMEONE FEELS, WORDS ARE NOT NEEDED and if these eyes do not speak to you of the fear and distrust they feel, you are deaf, dumb and blind. your choices affect those in these death camps, and so many around you, when you choose to partake in our current circle of death. let these children of sorrow be free of their pain and suffering, CHOOSE VEGAN SO NOBODY GETS HURT!"

http://www.facebook.com/......110045052/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"THIS IS HOW THE DAIRY THIEVES RETIRE THE TERRORIZED DAIRY SLAVES about twenty years early, of their natural lives...and you pay for this horrific torture and murder, when you buy the hell, these terrorist organizations sell, which keeps the funding for our current murder/suicidal system going. be an agent of change, consume only vegan, if enough of us do, it will no longer be financially viable to have these hell holes and this will only stop if you REFUSE TO PAY THE PSYCHOTIC HIT MAN."

http://www.facebook.com/......763379920/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"AN ALARM CLOCK IS OFTEN NEEDED TO AWAKEN THOSE THAT ARE IN A DEEP SLEEP, but how many actually like their alarm clocks and thank them for waking them up? vegans are now being hated on more than others by so many...all because people want to stay asleep. non-vegans, stop blaming the messenger for the message that is not comforting to those that do not like change. HUMANS MUST NOW EVOLVE TO BECOMING VEGAN STEWARDS."

http://www.facebook.com/......186740411/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"CHILDREN KNOW THAT LOVE IS ALL WE NEED and they come from their hearts and as Rumi states, it is where we should all come from. children know this, until we tell them that humans are the most important species here. teaching the children they are right, and love is all there is, is what will save us all. VEGANISM IS LOVE AND COMPASSION, IN ACTION."

http://www.facebook.com/......590075904/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"WE KILL MORE ANIMAL IN FOUR DAYS THAN ALL HUMANS HAVE BEEN KILLED in recorded history and we dare call ourselves civilized. we need to earn the title of being humane. but we are failing at our moral test concerning the animals, miserably. do not partake in our current circle of death, stop buying any animal products, or products that cause their suffering, DO NOT BUY ANY OF THE HELL, THEY SELL!"

http://www.facebook.com/......663410330/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"BILLIONS OF MOTHERS AND THEIR CHILDREN CRY AND SUFFER, because of this unnatural separation, every year. each crate you see here, has one of these children alone, in it. they were taken away at birth, so the dairy thieves can steal their milk. every child needs their mother, and every mother wants to nurture their child. we must not get between them, ever. DO NOT STEAL THE FOOD FROM THE MOUTHS OF BABES!"

http://www.facebook.com/......276740902/

NOname
| NOname explică:

Philip Wollen at the World Vegan Summit.
http://youtu.be/AfBhanzng0w

NOname
| NOname explică:

Beyond Carnism and toward Rational, Authentic Food Choices | Melanie Joy | TEDxMünchen
http://youtu.be/o0VrZPBskpg

NOname
| NOname explică:

"A NEW BORN CHILD IS THROWN IN THE MIDDLE OF A DEN OF THIEVES, that have already taken them from their mother to steal their milk and now will be bidding to forcibly confine him in a crate for months and steal his flesh and body, for money. you must realize that all products that come from animals harm them and are not necessary for our survival. WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO MAKE THESE CHILDREN SUFFER."

http://www.facebook.com/......706627459/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"THE WALL OF EXCUSES & JUSTIFICATIONS NEEDS TO COME DOWN. the old murder/suicide paradigm is wearing thin and harming us all, even those addicted to it, know they do not have a leg to stand on, it is hard to reach a hand out to those that are okay with cutting off the legs of other beings, to eat them, but we must try. the animals depend on us. we need to show others their excuses do not hold water...VEGANISM IS THE ONLY VIABLE AND COMPASSIONATE FUTURE."

http://www.facebook.com/......833289213/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"WHEN THE TABLES ARE TURNED AND YOU ARE THE ONE THAT IS THE "FARM' ANIMAL, being cut apart, for your body parts, this idea of being "sacrificed" to be food or trinkets, for others, seems a little barbaric and silly, right? empathy seems to only come, when we have also been treated with disdain, and cruelty. it does not have to go this far. THINK WITH COMPASSION, THINK VEGAN!"

http://www.facebook.com/......569961106/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"THE STORY BEHIND THE IGNORING OF THIS CRY FOR HELP IS HEARTBREAKING. this needy kitten approached a hiker in Vietnam to rescue them, as they could not fend for themselves, he walked away. their excuse is they let nature take "it's" course, but you are a part of nature, and could have helped is our rebuttal. if you can stop the suffering of any animal, in any way, please do! WE ARE THE EQUALIZERS, TO THE INDIFFERENCE."

http://www.facebook.com/......749958788/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"WE MUST MAKE IT SO EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS ALL ANIMALS ARE POTENTIAL FRIENDS and none are meant to be our "food", whether it is online, on the streets or in your homes or by watching documentaries with your friends and family, we must awaken all the others concerning the Holocaust of these innocent souls, and only then can they make an educated decision to continue in this circle of death. check out the links below, to see that we are making a difference. we must make it so SLAUGHTERHOUSES HAVE GLASS WALLS AND ALL SEE WHAT THEY SUPPORT."

http://www.facebook.com/......633294633/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"THE TERRORISM PIGS GO THROUGH BECAUSE YOU ARE A BACON JUNKIE, means there is a victim here, because of your addiction, so that makes it a crime, and we will not sit back and allow you to harm the innocent, for a taste sensation. vegans are your wake up call. your choices are harming others if you eat animals, so this is everyone's business. EATING MEAT & DAIRY IS NOT A "PERSONAL" CHOICE!"

http://www.facebook.com/......879961575/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"WHY WOULD "GOD" MAKE US OF MEAT, IF WE ARE NOT MEANT TO BE EATEN? this idea so many use that animals are here for us to use and abuse...is human arrogance and greed. we do not need to eat any animals and only 25% of animals eat others. if we did not have ways to protect ourselves, they would eat us, too. IF YOU WANT COMPASSION, GIVE COMPASSION!"

http://www.facebook.com/......579966405/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"THE HORRIFIED LOOK ON THIS HELPLESS CHILD'S FACE, SHOULD BE ENOUGH to make you stop eating any "food" that comes from their bodies or is stolen from them. what the procedure is, is not important. as all of it is not needed, and traumatizing. it is all being done, because of our addiction to taste sensations. eating meat is not needed, and, as a matter fact, it does more harm, than good...to you, the animals, and the planet. your money pays for this terrorism, when you buy the carnage they are peddling. HELP END ANIMAL TERRORISM, LIVE AS A VEGAN!"

http://www.facebook.com/......866663843/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"GRAINS ARE BEING GROWN IN AFRICA AND SENT TO THE USA, so the "farm" slaves there can be fattened up to be slaughtered as "burgers", at the rate of 14 pounds of plant food, for every pound of meat and 2000 gallons of water. and the cows, pigs and chickens are born with a due date over their heads, all for money. and feeding these children will not bring anyone money. check out the Philip Wollen speech below, that this quote is from and realize veganism is good for all! to FIGHT FAMINE, GET MEAT OFF THE MENU!"

http://www.facebook.com/......426662987/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"MEAT AND DAIRY IS THE REASON WE HAVE SO MANY STARVING and it is the reason we have so many health issues and the planet is losing so much of its resources and rainforests and it is all harming the biosphere, too...and all the while, we are killing close to 70 billion animals yearly, to die early from eating them ourselves. links are below, for those that can handle the truth. WHAT PART OF BEING VEGAN DOES NOT MAKE SENSE?"

http://www.facebook.com/......393330157/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"THIS IS HOW THEY BREED BABY LAMBS, TO BE SLAUGHTERED. artificial insemination is easier for the sadistic workers, but very painful for the ewes. did you actually think they had a date night? in those hell hole, death camps! these animals are just machines to those that make money from their suffering. do not buy wool, leather, fur, meat, dairy or any animal products! BY VEGAN, SO NOBODY GETS HURT!"

http://www.facebook.com/......776664152/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"WHY DO THE REAL COMPASSIONATE AND KIND MEN HAVE TO HIDE? while the barbaric and real animal terrorists are seen as celebrities? if we are ever to call ourselves a civilized society, we must support the k-ind and compassionate and stop celebrating the wicked, weak and murderous. LONG LIVE ALF, THE FREEDOM FIGHTERS!"

http://www.facebook.com/......073330989/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"THESE ABUSED SOULS NEED THE STRONG AND DECENT HUMAN SOULS, to speak for their right to life, and liberty, and if you are such a soul, please, stand up and be counted. 70 billion animals are forcibly confined, and being tortured and killed, because those that will not go against the lowest common denominator, sit by and watch. if you come forward, others will too. and many have done so, already. veganism is the fastest growing movement and given half a chance. VEGANS WILL USHER IN THE PEACE WE ALL WANT."

http://www.facebook.com/......916665438/

NOname
| NOname explică:

"YOUR SUBSTANCE OF CHOICE IS KILLING OTHERS BECAUSE OF YOUR ADDICTION and therefore it is not a "personal" choice and it harms other humans, too. as eating meat and dairy uses so much of our resources, it has many people wanting for food and water. your choices have consequences. choosing vegan means you are THINKING OF THOSE YOU MAY HARM, AND CHOOSING TO HARM NONE."

http://www.facebook.com/......266664903/